hi vanoord.i think you will find that no one in UCET is having a go at DARKPLACES .

he's DEFO not one of are members so GIVE US A BRAKE . all we wont to do is cave and enjoy it .so some of our members post videos on u tube there just having a laugh . burrows would'nt fit into one of our hats

oops sorry old boy forgot to mention where abouts in HALKYN are you

Watch out Vanoord the Pen Y Pylle boys are coming to get you

ha martymart.i believe you were in the glan the other night when some of us were there on the schoolys night . you should have comr over for the crac

johns a pussy cat really

Lol, a good old GCC debate.

GCC have done a good job of keeping OG unconcreted and have done loads of applaudable maintainance and put a lot of fixed rigging in the system. Hats off to them.

On the down side, it's rather obvious access negotiations stopped at the point GCC got access to the complex with not enough thought in my opinion to the wider mine exploring community.

Under the rules for BCA Access Controlling Bodies, which GCC are one of, they are required under the contract to provide access to in the least other BCA members to any and all mines/caves for which they control access. But they are allowed to insist trips are led trips, and GCC do.

GCC have been providing 'guided tours' as required by their BCA affiliation, though arranging one is a very difficult and long winded affair as I can speak from experiance. I can understand it's probably a hassle to be giving tours all the time, but this is really the result of GCC taking it upon themselves to access control the largest mine system in the UK and then insisting on guided tours only with a ratio of 1 GCC leader to 6 visitors.

GCC have kept the Milwr complex very close to the chest for years, through strict access-control rules laid down either by GCC themselves or the landowners, we know not which. Even in the latter case, I can't help but notice how well the arrangement suits GCC and I wonder how much effort was made to try and negotiate the rules further for the wider community. I'd hazard a guess at none what so ever.

The mines under our feet are our history, it was our fathers and forfathers who created it. If GCC ever do regain access at OG, I hope they appoint some new officers with a fresh approch and more of an understanding that there are lots of people outside of GCC that don't want to cause trouble - they just want to be able to appriciate the mine in their own way and time. I would rather GCC try and negotiate an arrangement that is of benefit to everybody, not just themselves.

I also hope they will continue the excellent work they've been doing in there, and maybe with more people about, they could get some extra help?

Vanoord,

Rhiw Bach
I was not aware access to Rhiw Bach was such a sensitive issue. Our trip to the mine was sanctioned and came about from a meeting I had with a lady within the Snowdonia Society (a meeting that was not caving related). After that meeting, we were chatting about things in general (in this case the societies activities) and she mentioned that they had an “underground walk”. That obviously caught my attention and we quickly began talking about the mine (as they have access as well as the outdoor leisure centre) and she invited me to come along. I asked if we (the club) could go on our own accord and she said we could go anytime we wanted.

As you have said the mine is sensitive I have now removed the videos from public viewing on youtube as I obviously do not wish to cause any difficulties for any mine explorer, club or group (not least the club I am a member of).

GCC
I think, also, that there is some confusion that GCC and UCET are the same club (I think you thought that “I Burrows” was one of us). I see that Mike has already posted that he isn’t a member of our club but just to clarify; UCET isn’t the Grosvenor Caving Club although some of the GCC members have posted on the forum here. However, when they do so, they are not representing UCET or UCET policies. The forum has quickly become a battleground (some might see this a good thing for airing grievances, some might see it as bad) but the battles have not been started by us.

The forum administrator has coloured the names of registered users to make the distinction (red = UCET member, white = other forum member).

For my part, I have much the same view as Miles & SimplyExploring who, in earlier posts, indicated that they want to enjoy exploring underground and would prefer to promote easier access for everyone regardless of whether a person is in a club or not. We certainly don’t want to cause any trouble or make life difficult for anyone.

I see you live in Halkyn; we meet in the Glan-yr-Afon pub on Thursday evenings after we have been underground (usually arriving quite late), we aren’t a bad bunch and a bit of bar time together might go a long way

Regards,

Ian

You UCET are all so dammed nice cant I gripe at you about 'something'!

The MOD thinks us darkplaces lot are "A bunch of bad boys" Its nice to be known Then last year I **** off Jack Straw hehehe